temporal paradoxeseses

ford prefect · 10-03-2006, 09:43 AM

This has to do with the show but it is also something on my mind....

I love/hate the idea behind time travel which is essentially what Hiro can do.

Hopefully the show will be able to clear up all paradoxes that they have already started.
Example:
Hiro went 5 weeks into the future, in order to find the artist (and subsequently the exact date of the explosion), he found the comic based on himself. Which means at some point in time in the near future the artist will still have to do the comic regardless of whether or not he meets Hiro before his death. PLUS, this contains some information about his drug problem. He can only see/paint the future when high, his little g/f said he had to choose her or drugs. Because of the comic, he would have had to choose drugs.

PLUS!!!
Hiro will never be able to be in those exact places on the day of the explosion. Otherwise he will run into himself. And that creates it's own paradox/time imbalance. He will ALWAYS be in those places on that day because if he wasn't then he wouldn't be where he was now.
Isn't this stuff confusing/thought provoking?

ford prefect · 10-03-2006, 09:46 AM

OOOOH!
AND......
his friend in Japan will still get the phone call about Hiro no matter what!
So Hiro somehow has to make sure that he speaks with NO ONE in Japan for the time between oct 2-nov 9, otherwise he would have created yet ANOTHER paradox. His friend said he was missing for 5 weeks. That cannot be changed as Hiro already experienced it.

Did I mention that I am in school for astrophysics??? :wink:

Mathsorcerer · 10-03-2006, 09:51 AM

Hiro travelled to one possible future; upon returning back to the present he is now already on track to a different future. Based on what he saw in New York, he will now make choices differently than if he had not seen what he saw.

Quantum physics tells us that every possible outcome happens, but we see only one actualization because we cannot perceive multiple outcomes.

ford prefect · 10-03-2006, 09:58 AM

agreed, However,
Stephen Hawking said that what Hiro did is impossible based on the fact that if someone could do that then they would ultimately change the fate of people whose fate's were not meant to be changed.
ie: The bible
If what Hiro did was possible then there would have been more people at the crucifixtion of Christ. And since there was only a small crowd and none were described as 'travellers' then the ability to travel is null.
(if hiro could travel forward, what's not to say he can't travel back? Which he did anyway by going back to his own time.)

By giving himself advanced warning of the future, the future he travelled to became HIS reality. Which means it happened; and yes, he can change it, however because he WAS there it was real.

Super Ordinary Guy · 10-03-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathsorcerer

Quantum physics tells us that every possible outcome happens, but we see only one actualization because we cannot perceive multiple outcomes.

Yep! I agree! Quantum physics, from what my meager mind can comprehend, tells us that an electron traveling around a nucleus can take many different paths. In fact, an electron can take multiple paths at the same time! So, how can one electron be in more than one place at one time? Isn't that a paradox? Yet it happens quite regularly on a sub-atomic level. This is the same question which our Hiro faces. If electrons can do it, I guess so can Hiro.

Mathsorcerer · 10-03-2006, 01:48 PM

There is no paradox--an electron is in more than one place at one time. An "electron" isn't really a particle, you see; rather, it is a localized bundle of energy that has certain properties that resemble what a particle would do. Statistically, at any given point in time an electron is in a certain region of space and that within that region there is a distribution curve defining the probability that the electron is in an exact region. Since observing the electron actualizes only one possibility, then before you look at the electron it is in every possible region. It sounds weird but it really does make sense.

That is why the simplest and most plausible explanation about what would happen if someone were to time travel is the "multiple universes" hypothesis--all possible realities exist, but we as individuals perceive only one.

Yes, this technically disagrees with Stephen Hawking, but then he isn't always right. :wink:

ford prefect · 10-03-2006, 02:28 PM

blasphemy!!!!!

nice to see a fellow science nerd here though.

I completely agree with the infinite universe thing, but for the sake of American television and the fact that I highly doubt they have any sort of cosmologist on the payroll, I think it will be very interesting to see how exactly they deal with what is such a confusing and controversial thing!

Like I said before though, once Hiro went into the furture, it became his reality. Which means it stays in his memory no matter what. Every action he makes will be based on that reality, but if we hold to the multiple unverse theory, then how do we know that what he saw is what will happen? I believe the show will use his 'trip' to help the group, however every person has the ability to change the reality of 'now', so potentially the reality he saw 5 weeks from now could not happen. And all of the choices he makes could be really bad or completely useless.

Mathsorcerer · 10-03-2006, 02:39 PM

We could treat Hiro's ability to travel into the future as precognition of a sort, much like Isaac or Johnny Smith from the Dead Zone.

The explosion in New York will happen...but we might not be in the reailty in which it does happen.

Yes, Hiro will now make choices differently based on what he saw. Those choices may take him/us further from that reailty...or closer to it.

ford prefect · 10-03-2006, 02:41 PM

by any chance are you a stephen king dark tower junkie??

Mathsorcerer · 10-03-2006, 02:46 PM

No, that I am not. My opinion of Stephen King as an author/storyteller is...well, not very positive.